❝❝A modern liberal can range from what used to be called a "progressive" to socialist. Roughly speaking, a modern liberal is all for personal freedom but feels that economic freedom and opportunity should be controlled by government action so that everyone "benefits equally" in the name of "social justice." In it's more extreme forms, it can mean that good intentions and lofty goals are judged over results.❞❞

— NeoWayland, Pagan•Vigil FAQ

Tags: maxims ∙ modern liberal ∙ progressive ∙ socialist ∙ personal freedom ∙ economic freedom ∙ government ∙ equality ∙ social justice

Tags: guest content ∙ video ∙ John Stossel ∙ progressive ∙ Bernie Sanders ∙ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ∙ Yaron Brook ∙ Ayn Rand Institute ∙ poor ∙ private property ∙ profit ∙ individual ∙ permission ∙ industrial revolution ∙ running water ∙ electricity

❝❝Save us from the crusaders. “Here I come to save the day!”

Whatever form WestCiv and America specifically ends up with, you're still going to have to live with people who disagree and hate everything you stand for. You don't build communities by excluding people you don't like.

Crusading just means "your" side will win for a short while. And the the whole cycle starts again.

---

Unknown today. In his time, his writings were very well known and pretty influential. He wrote Our Enemy, the State among other things

I cited him in the first place is because a top down approach doesn't work for very long, if it works at all. People resent being told what to do, especially if you force them. I don't have a detailed plan because I don't think that any one person or any one group has all the answers. I think a big, big part of the problem is that we usually phrase our social problems in dualities, this or that. Dualities exclude other choices, it's all or nothing. So when I see phases like "save Western Civilization," it tells me that someone is reinforcing the original problem, not finding a solution.

No matter how good their plan may be, anything based on a dual choice and only a dual choice is doomed. That's the point that Nock tried to make in that article. People won't submit to Greater Authority for Their Own Good. The people you might convince won't listen until after the stuff hits the fan.

---

To start with, we could enforce the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment clearly outlaws most of the Federal government.

Given how little the Federal government pays attention to the Constitution and it's own laws, I don't think additional restrictions would work.

---

The Constitution was designed to rein in government. I'd encourage anyone interested to read the Federalist papers and the anti-Federalist papers. Unless the power is specifically granted in the Constitution, the Federal government doesn't have it. Or at least it shouldn't.

The one time that the Constitution was amended to restrict the people was a disaster.

It wasn't until the progressive movement of the late 19th and early 20th that the public perception of limited government turned to expecting an activist government with virtually unlimited powers.

I don't care about SCOTUS in the 20th Century, I'm pretty sure that time travel causes unintended consequences.

---

See, I'm not sure if adding more government is the solution to bad government. Hmm, I might have said something like that before.

And I don't think trading insults is the way to go. Sometimes winning isn't nearly as important as keeping the other guy from reaching the goal.

---

Isn't adding things like term limits and engineering the constraints adding to government?

I wasn't talking about insulting the voters. Imagine a boxing match. Which shows more skill, the ability to take and dish out punch after punch? Or the ability not to get hit while letting the other guy hurt himself trying to hurt you?

Which leaves you better able to go to work after?

---

Yes, the Constitution is a restraint device. But it hasn't worked. Why should another work? This is where you lose me.

Whatever Trump may or may not be, what happens next? Trump is rare, most people can't fight dirty for an extended time. If the only structure we can build depends on fighting dirty for every advantage, how are we better off?

---

No, it hasn't, not for at least 85 years. Although I think a strong case can be made that it hasn't more than a century. What we've been living under is the illusion that the Constitution is working and that more government is a good thing.

I've argued that term limits are meaningless when the major parties control who gets on the ballot. I've also argued that primary elections divert attention away from the real stakes. CGP Grey has a great video explaining why first part the post voting is not a good thing.

I keep returning to this because I think it is critical. We've been indoctrinated for generations to think that the way to fix a corrupt system is through system management. We've moved beyond the black mold stage, the pieces are so radioactive that using them not only risks our health but also could contaminate any new pieces we add. The benefits of "playing the system" and exploiting others and yes, even fighting dirty and ugly so outweigh long term thinking that there are actually severe disincentives to a long term IPD.

Case in point, and this one isn't even a libertarian thing. The US has more military bases in more foreign nations than any other power in history. Our military spending is bigger than the next thirty nations combined. We actively discourage other nations from establishing their own bases. We meddle in their internal affairs and throw hissy fits when people from other nations buy advertising aimed at our own elections. We bully others and tell ourselves that we fight the really bad bullies "for the little guy."

Why?

Do you think that Trump would stand down? Maybe close ten percent of our overseas bases? Do you think that American intervention leads to a safer world? Would you accept it if other nations did the same to the US?

Why is it bad when the deep state does it, but OK when Trump uses the same tools?

---

You misunderstand. I'm waiting for the system to rip itself apart. I don't have to work actively against it, I just don't have to patch it up or compensate for it's failure.

One area we do disagree is that the right is somehow more moral than the left. Another is that a system controlled by the right is preferable to one controlled by the left. The right gave us the USA PATRIOT Act, and the left gave us Obamacare. Hard to say at this point which has done the most damage. As for Trump, well, trade and tariffs alone are balanced on a knifeblade between what might possibly work if we are extremely lucky and what might cause disaster so epic as to make the Great Depression and World War II look like last Tuesday.

---

It's not the voters I don't trust. I don't trust the "options" the voters are allowed to have. You can have your left arm or your right leg cut off, but you must choose one.

I'm willing to let my principles compete without the coercion of the state or what is "morally right." That's more than either the right or the left want, they want to hold a gun to people's heads for Your Own Good.

The right is self-limiting? The War on Drugs. Too big to fail. An ongoing overseas war that for the first time in American history, has soldiers fighting who weren't even born when it started.

While I marginally prefer conservatives, no one and certainly no institution gets a pass because of the label. Branding is a horrific way to govern. What have you done for me lately?

---

The duality is an illusion. More accurately the duality is a condition required for the system to work. But that doesn't mean the system is a good idea or the best idea. Yet that duality by it's nature locks us into either/or and calls it the best choice.

The system wants us to choose the best baseball team when I want to swim.

My problem is that I see statists on "both" sides, and the right is no less threatening than the left. Your premise is that the right is a better choice and my premise is that statists (any statists) threaten freedom.❞❞

Tags: Western Civilization ∙ America ∙ disagree ∙ crusade ∙ Albert Jay Nock ∙ top down ∙ dualism ∙ Constitution ∙ Tenth Amendment ∙ restraint ∙ government ∙ Federalist papers ∙ Anti-Federalist papers ∙ SCOTUS ∙ progressive ∙ solution ∙ Donald Trump ∙ term limits ∙ primary election ∙ CGP Grey ∙ first past the post ∙ system management ∙ milirarist ∙ right ∙ Left ∙ voters ∙ statist

“We all get into intense discussions with frustrating leftists, but despite all the reason and logic in the world, we rarely make progress. In this video, I explore some ways in which anyone might effectively red pill a liberal.”

Tags: video ∙ guest content ∙ MrReagan ∙ discuss ∙ red pill ∙ progressive ∙ leftist

“Drag Queen Kid Desmond is Amazing recently danced at a gay bar & Lactatia the 8 year old drag queen has been praised by progressives. Drag Queens are increasingly being invited to speak at schools, so is drag the normal for children?”

Tags: guest content ∙ video ∙ Roaming Millennial ∙ sex ∙ drag queen kid ∙ progressive ∙ normal

❝❝Progressive politics revolves around choosing the most oppressed so that everyone else can be shamed into granting extra privileges to the designated victims.❞❞

— from the private journal of NeoWayland

Tags: progressive ∙ oppressed ∙ shamed ∙ privilege ∙ designated ∙ victims

“Amazon lobbies for government favors and bad regulations.”

Tags: guest content ∙ video ∙ John Stossel ∙ capitalists ∙ Amazon ∙ goverment ∙ crony capitalism ∙ workers ∙ minimum wage ∙ mercantilism ∙ progressive ∙ regressive

“The BBC's biased liberal reporting is on full display when it comes to Glamrou, gender, and diversity. Media bias examples abound, but the BBC's state-funding makes it especially deserving of scrutiny.”

Tags: guest content ∙ video ∙ Roaming Millennial ∙ progressive ∙ propaganda ∙ Glamrou ∙ gender ∙ diversity

I reserve the right to tie anyone in semantic knots if I can do it with truth.

Tags: truth ∙ semantic knots ∙ anti-gun ∙ gun control ∙ victim disarmament ∙ news ∙ balance ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ institutions ∙ top down ∙ competition ∙ Southern Poverty Law Center ∙ political parties ∙ racketeering ∙ government is not your friend

Once you start using force and the rule of law to go after your "enemies," what's to stop you from going after us next?

Tags: tyranny ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ libertarian ∙ dissent ∙ rights ∙ rules ∙ labels ∙ game ∙ victim group ∙ let me help ∙ crusade

Headlines that don't merit their own entry

Tags: Oregon ∙ progressive ∙ Amtrack ∙ derailment ∙ minimum wage ∙ Christmas tree ∙ predictions ∙ Iran ∙ unrest

This is a page from the original version of Pagan Vigil. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.paganvigil.com/C322448388/E1545986641

A pet peeve

Classic liberalism rests on the defense of individual liberty and private property, usually with a limited government. In America today, that is called libertarianism.

Modern liberalism depends on an ever increasing government intervention to control economic activity an channel it towards worthy ends.

The two have nothing to do with one another, even though modern liberalism claims descent from classic liberalism by way of social democracy.

From my viewpoint, modern liberalism is trying to cash in on the reputation of classic liberalism in order to justify their actions, even though those same actions violate both the spirit and letter of classic liberalism

Posted: Tue - August 9, 2005 at 07:18 AM

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic liberalism ∙ modern liberalism ∙ libertarian ∙ progressive

Older headlines that don't merit their own entry

Tags: bad cops ∙ police union ∙ racism ∙ Ásatrú ∙ heathen ∙ FBI ∙ encryption ∙ cellphone surveillance device ∙ Blackberry ∙ Calgary ∙ JFK asassination ∙ immigration ∙ invasion ∙ fear ∙ DHS ∙ police state ∙ fearmongering ∙ rehab ∙ chicken plants ∙ Harvey Weinstein ∙ hysteria ∙ climate skeptic ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ militant ∙ First Amendment ∙ Woodrow Wilson ∙ counter-culture ∙ establishment ∙ cops ∙ car theft ∙ criminal activity ∙ food truck ∙ hurricane ∙ permit

❝❝It's not liberalism, it's the label. And it doesn't matter if the label is progressive, conservative, Christian, atheist, or United States Senator. The label has no virtue or vice, no morality, and no inherent worth. It's the individual that owns the outcome of their thoughts, words, and deeds. It's the individual and the individual alone who can take responsibility.❞❞
     — NeoWayland

Tags: maxims ∙ liberalism ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ Christian ∙ atheist ∙ United States Senator ∙ vice ∙ virtue ∙ morality ∙ inherent worth ∙ individual ∙ thoughts ∙ words ∙ deeds

What is to stop someone else from deciding that it's a good cause to thump you over the head? Once the excuses start, what's to protect you from the politics of the day?

Tags: baseball bat ∙ violence ∙ right cause ∙ justified ∙ libertarian ∙ non-aggression principle ∙ progressive ∙ pagan ∙ Republican ∙ religion ∙ Charlottesville ∙ H.L. Mencken ∙ bilagáana ∙ Navajo reservation ∙ Four Corners ∙ marginalization of minorities ∙ Antifa ∙ black bloc ∙ violence justified ∙ morally justified ∙ Tef Poe ∙ Yusra Khogali ∙ racism

Here's what we know so far.

Tags: Peter Beinart ∙ violence ∙ Jason Kessler ∙ Unite the Right ∙ Occupy Wall St. Activist ∙ Obama supporter ∙ Charlottesville ∙ political activists ∙ progressive ∙ police ∙ stand down ∙ Virginia ∙ Terry McAuliffe ∙ Virginia state police

America's Media Meltdown

❝❝In the 2008 campaign, reporters ignored the close and disturbing relationships between the mostly unknown Obama and a cast of unsavory characters: his racist and anti-Semitic pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the neighborhood confidant and former terrorist Bill Ayers, and the wheeler-dealer and soon-to-be felon Tony Rezko.

Instead, journalists quickly started worshipping candidate Obama in a manner never quite seen before, not even in the days of the iconic liberal presidents like Franklin Delano Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy. Newsweek editor Evan Thomas declared Obama to be a deity (“Obama's standing above the country, above the world, he’s sort of God.”) His very words were able to make the leg of MSNBC’s Chris Matthews “tingle.” His pants’ crease proved for David Brooks a talisman of his future greatness, along with the fact that the mellifluent Obama “talks like us.”

While a few journalists were aware of their cult-like worship, most were hooked and competed to outdo one another with embarrassing hagiographic praise. Upon election, Obama was summarily declared by one presidential historian and television pundit to the smartest man with the highest IQ ever to have been president.

Obama himself channeled the veneration, variously promising in god-like fashion to cool the planet and lower the seas, remarking that his own multifaceted expertise was greater than that of all of the various specialists who ran his campaign. For the next eight years, the media largely ignored what might charitably be called an historic overextension of presidential power and scandal not seen since the days of Richard Nixon’s presidency. A clique of journalists set up a private chat group, JournoList, through which they could channel ideas to promote the Obama progressive agenda.❞❞
     — Victor Davis Hanson

Tags: clipping ∙ Victor Davis Hanson ∙ Barack Obama ∙ Jeremiah Wright ∙ Bill Ayers ∙ Tony Rezko ∙ FDR ∙ JFK ∙ Newsweek ∙ Evan Thomas ∙ Chris Matthews ∙ David Brooks ∙ presidential power ∙ scandal ∙ Richard Nixon ∙ JournoList ∙ progressive

❝❝In my experience, conservatives won't knife you in the back. They'll scream in your face, they'll tell you that you're wrong, but they're usually facing you.

Certain progressives will trot you out for the dog-&-pony show, drape an arm over your shoulder, smile for the cameras, and then slide the knife in so smoothly you never feel it until after you start bleeding and they've moved away.❞❞
     — NeoWayland

Tags: maxims ∙ conservative ∙ progressive ∙ knife you in the back ∙ scream ∙ facing you ∙ dog-&-pony ∙ smile

Tags: DEA ∙ cash ∙ billions ∙ asset forfeiture ∙ authority ∙ government ∙ gay pride ∙ rainbow flag ∙ victimhood ∙ victim hierarchy ∙ progressive ∙ Tea Party ∙ Illinois ∙ Russia ∙ Team Obama ∙ Team Hillary ∙ Trump campaign ∙ lawyers ∙ crony capitalism ∙ Carrier ∙ unholy allliance ∙ Mexico ∙ Indiana

We need solutions that don't exile people politically.

Tags: progressive ∙ conservative ∙ environmental crusade ∙ President ∙ power of the state

Hollywood celebrities always freak out when a conservative is elected.

Tags: Hillary Clinton ∙ Donald Trump ∙ none of the above ∙ progressive ∙ liberal ∙ election ∙ gloating ∙ misdeeds ∙ lies ∙ virtues ∙ keep moving forward ∙ short

❝❝I'm libertarian. If I had my way, the government would be much smaller and not pushing either a progressive agenda or a conservative one. I'm convinced that a big reason WHY this is happening now is because conservatives built the Big Institutions to keep things working Their Way™ and progressives took them over for the exact same reason.

I don't believe the answer is in who gets to call the shots.

I think the solution is stopping people from meddling with other people's lives so that those other people HAVE to take responsibility for their own choices.

Because that's the real 'for their own good.'❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝Progress never comes from satisfaction.

And I am not talking about progressives.

We adapt, we change, we rise to meet the challenges. Life is a journey, not a destination.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝Perhaps the biggest difference between libertarians and conservatives/progressives is that conservatives and progressives view government as a Way To Get Things Done.

Libertarians see government as an extremely dangerous beast that if kept at all, must be severely hobbled and and three-quarters starved.

For the safety of the community.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝

Tags: conservative ∙ progressive ∙ libertarian ∙ government beast ∙ commenting

Comments

Keep law simple and absolute.

Tags: Official Authorities® ∙ for your own good ∙ uniform rule of law ∙ deductions ∙ waivers ∙ progressive rates ∙ abatements ∙ incentives ∙ special recognition ∙ government grants ∙ government funding ∙ private enterprise ∙ special rights ∙ bad law ∙ progressive ∙ income tax ∙ exceptions ∙ legislators ∙ campaign contributions ∙ non-profit foundations ∙ charity ∙ ☆

Why don’t liberals get the blame for their words and actions?

Tags: gun control ∙ progressive ∙ racism

Bookworm is looking for scapegoats

Tags: personal freedom ∙ commenting ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ Bookworm ∙ Christianity ∙ parity test ∙ progressive ∙ goal is freedom ∙ modern liberal ∙ freely chosen

My goal isn’t winning internet arguments, it’s freedom.

Tags: internet ∙ informed choice ∙ modern liberal ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ personal choice ∙ statist ∙ freely chosen

So no matter what I’ve said before now, no matter what I’ve done before now, if I fail to do this now, I’m racist.

Tags: goal is freedom ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ Arizona ∙ good intentions ∙ criminal foreiture ∙ human rights ∙ reciprocity ∙ progressive ∙ mala prohibita ∙ victimhood ∙ civil forfeiture

The real problem with "progressive" laws

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic ∙ progressive ∙ favorites ∙ civil forfeiture

What does the call for a "progressive judge" on the United States Supreme Court really mean?

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic ∙ progressive ∙ favorites ∙ liberal ∙ progressive ∙ Sandra Day O'Conner ∙ Democrat ∙ Supreme Court ∙ Kelo v. New London ∙ Berman v. Parker ∙ private property ∙ urban renewal ∙ social engineering ∙ Pfizer

What does the call for a "progressive judge" on the United States Supreme Court really mean?

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic ∙ progressive ∙ favorites ∙ liberal ∙ progressive ∙ Sandra Day O'Conner ∙ Democrat ∙ Supreme Court ∙ Kelo v. New London ∙ Berman v. Parker ∙ private property ∙ urban renewal ∙ social engineering ∙ Pfizer

Despite the "push for impeachment," it is not one individual or party we should be worried about

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic ∙ progressive ∙ conservative ∙ RICO Act ∙ Sherman Anti-Trust Act ∙ Brown ∙ originalist ∙ victimhood ∙ human rights ∙ favorites

The only worthy faiths and beliefs are those freely chosen

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ classic ∙ progressive ∙ media bias ∙ Billy boy ∙ Bush League ∙ Diebold ∙ favorites

Just the FAQs about my Vigil

Tags: Original Vigil ∙ libertarian ∙ progressive ∙ socialist ∙ modern liberal ∙ religion ∙ economic freedom ∙ human rights ∙ personal freedom ∙ conservative ∙ bad choices ∙ for your own good ∙ smaller than absolutely necessary ∙ Zero Agression Principle ∙ KYFHO ∙ Pagan ∙ individual freedom ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ part time troublemaker ∙ person of faith ∙ Zero Aggression Principle ∙ Non-Aggression Principle ∙ Veritas