As for secession, no, it's not treason.

Tags: maxims ∙ fair game ∙ commenting

❝❝Pardon, but that’s not necessarily true. Aside from the obvious “Might makes right,” it’s also possible to build a moral system based on the Ethic of Reciprocity.

---

I'd argue that in peacetime, there are very few times that reciprocity doesn't apply, at least in the long term. You want to screw with the people around you, they will remember and be less likely to deal with you in the future. (There was a great Bill Whittle essay on this that I used to point people at, but it's not online anymore).

❝What is the origin of those rules?❞

That is a great question. The practical part of me would ask does it matter as long as the rules work?

---

Not just Christianity.

❝In our opinion, the greatest failure of many organized religions is their historical inability to convince their followers that the Ethic of Reciprocity applies to all humans, not merely to fellow believers like themselves. It is our group's belief that religions should stress that their members also use their Ethic of reciprocity when dealing with persons of other religions, other genders, other cultures, other sexual orientations, other gender identities, etc. Only when this is accomplished will religiously-related oppression, mass murder and genocide cease.

Crimes against humanity require that the victims first be viewed as subhuman and the as not worthy of life. If the Ethic of Reciprocity is applied to all humans, then no person or group of persons can be seen in this way.❞

---

The whole point of that quote was that many organized religions use an ethic of reciprocity but do not extend their definition of people to members of other religions. In other words, the "elect" have privileges (and implied Wisdom™) that "mere unbelievers" do not.

Reread the quote.

We have one race and that's human. If it's really about reciprocity, we're obligated to recognize the worth of others.

---

And if someone doesn't believe in your eternal judge, don't you face the exact same questions?

It's not my place to say if your God exists or if He may judge you or indeed if He cares what color shirt you will wear next Saturday. That's between you and Him.

Likewise, it's not your place to say the same thing about my gods.

Which means the only things we have to build a society and culture on are the things we have in common. If that's not going to be a shared belief in a specific aspect of Divinity, what's left?

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Or my preferred version "Be excellent to each other. And party on, Dudes!"

---

❝I'm asking about how, absent a transcendent signifier, anything means anything.❞

I can't answer that for you. I don't believe anyone can answer that for another person.

If you believe, there's no doubt that will shape your thoughts and actions. If you believe in a different Divine aspect, that will shape your thoughts and actions differently. If you don't believe, your actions will still be shaped by belief.

It's a question of faith. We may not share faith. Does that mean we can't share a culture or a society?

---

I was updating one of my blogs and I ran across an entry from this site that I made. I thought it was good so I quoted it on my site a few weeks back. The line also applies here.

❝When it comes to religion becoming the law of the land, the devout don't need it, the non-believers don't want it, and the politicos will corrupt it.❞

---

I think the mark of an adult is the ability to make the right choice without the threat of punishment. Or perhaps despite it.

We know that's possible. Under the right circumstances, we even revere the people who did that as saints and heroes.

---

One may also choose to honor it, cherish it, and nourish it.

It's a matter of choice.

So tell me, is morality stronger when one chooses it? Or is it stronger when one holds a gun to another's head and says "Do as I say or else!!!"

Isn't morality really about making a choice?

If it's made under duress, doesn't it cease to be moral?

If morality is really a choice, then people will make choices you do not like. The next question is what do you intend to do about them?

---

I'm not an atheist.

Again, if it's a choice made under duress, is it really moral?

If morality can only exist by force, what's the point?

---

I can see your point, if the rules are transcendent, then they are universal.

But if that guy over there doesn't believe the rules are transcendent, then for him they won't be. That's true regardless.

And then you get into the arguments over which particular Deity wrote the rules and what the "civilized people" are going to do with those folks who do not believe.

That's an incredibly dangerous path to take.

---

One thing I've learned is that when it comes to enforcing morality, it's almost never a god that does it. It's people who claim to to speak for the Divine.

Inevitably, that leads to arguments over which god is in charge. Funny how that leads to political power for a certain priesthood.

Religion is not the reason, it's the justification.

---

I disagree. I think the core of civilization is cooperation, not force. Positive not punishment.

Although I differ from most libertarians when it comes to the Zero Aggression Principle, I believe that relying on force alone will create disaster.

Is morality transcendent or man-made? That's ultimately unanswerable on anything except a personal level. Practically, it only matters if I can trust you and you can trust me.

---

A couple of years ago I asked on this site if someone could be a "good" man if they weren't Christian.

I don't think force is a foundation of civilization.

What do I base trust on? Past behavior if I have a history with you. The chance to make things a little better today if I don't.

It's an act of faith. *grins*

You know, we’ve had this discussion before. Somehow, I don’t think either of us has changed our views since then.

---

Hah! I found it. I misremembered what I wrote. Perhaps the question bears repeating here.

Is the only source of accepted morality Christian?

---

I'm talking about honoring, cherishing and nourishing a moral philosophy. There's not much subjective about it.

If I don't want to be killed, I shouldn't kill others.

If I don't want to be hurt, I should not hurt others.

If I want nice stuff, I shouldn't take or damage other people's stuff.

The best way I can protect myself is to stand up for others when I can.

This isn't because of some priest hiding behind a sacred text. This is because I live in the World with other people.

---

I agree with you.

My grandfather's funeral taught me that the measure of a man was how he touched the lives of others.

As a person of faith myself, I believe in the Divine and I do devotions. I believe that reaching beyond ourselves is how we become better and make our world better. It's the Manifestation.

I just don't think that's the only choice.❞ class="ghoster">❞

❝❝

Tags: Golden Rule ∙ duress ∙ force ∙ ethic of reciprocity ∙ might makes right ∙ commenting ∙ common ground ∙ morality ∙ moral justification ∙ moral ∙ practical ∙ reciprocity ∙ Christianity ∙ the Elect ∙ implied Wisdom™ ∙ mere unbelievers ∙ worth of others ∙ religion ∙ law of the land ∙ politicos ∙ choice & consequence ∙ choice ∙ atheist ∙ cooperation ∙ positive not punishment ∙ person of faith

Comments

He's one of those people you should have read about in school

Tags: Gallup ∙ commenting ∙ environmental crusade ∙ ethanol ∙ subsidized electrical ∙ subsidized water ∙ climate change ∙ drought ∙ waste disposale ∙ industrial chemicals ∙ factory farming ∙ CFL bulbs ∙ wind farms ∙ landfills ∙ global warming ∙ True Belief® ∙ American Southwest ∙ pollution ∙ architecture ∙ thou shalt not dissent

The FBI was fighting a PR war

Tags: faiths ∙ commenting ∙ common ground ∙ religion

This isn't news about this site

Tags: young ∙ voting age ∙ commenting

Too good to skip

Tags: reform ∙ regulations ∙ Federal Register ∙ cut spending ∙ national defense ∙ israel ∙ Saudi Arabia ∙ Social Security ∙ too big to fail ∙ commenting

Tags: Disqus ∙ commenting ∙ avatar

The only point in taking over the world is to make sure people make their own choices

Tags: DoD ∙ U.S. Air Force ∙ commenting ∙ conservative ∙ extremist ∙ individual rights ∙ car ∙ bands ∙ too big to fail ∙ housing loans ∙ equal rights ∙ skin color ∙ religion ∙ women's vote ∙ racists ∙ Imperious Leader ∙ Bush League ∙ Tricky Dick ∙ personal computer

Not all feminists & not all lesbians

Tags: libertarian ∙ immigrants ∙ Mexico ∙ War on Drugs ∙ commenting ∙ armed toops ∙ amnesty ∙ E-Verify ∙ income tax ∙ welfare ∙ Detroit ∙ employer ∙ California

the ORIGINAL NeoNotes™

Tags: pervert ∙ spuse ∙ commenting ∙ moral ∙ significant others ∙ immigrants ∙ theft ∙ Elvis Presley ∙ fraud ∙ nobody else's business ∙ Walt Whitman ∙ greater good ∙ consenting adults ∙ sex ∙ personal choice ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ for the children ∙ prostitution ∙ teachers ∙ immoral ∙ freedom ∙ liberty ∙ smear word ∙ dissent ∙ libertarian

Some of the comments I make on other boards are worth saving

Tags: libertarian ∙ authority ∙ trust ∙ bottom up ∙ top down ∙ commenting ∙ Somebody Else's Problem ∙ KYFHO ∙ freedom ∙ virtues ∙ vices

❝❝First, not all feminists. And not all lesbians.

Now with that out of the way, these particular females (I will not dignify them as ladies) do have a big problem.

It's all about the guilt. If the guys don't feel guilt, there is no way these females will get their way. I for one am tired of it. I've been lectured to about the need for keeping silent when the RadFems are speaking. I've been lectured for pointing out that environmentalism makes no sense while ecology does. I've been lectured for saying #AllLivesMatter. And I have been lectured to when I refused to change my lifestyle because it is not acceptable to feminism.

KYFHO.

I make the same stand against them that I make against some of the conservative Christians. My life is my own. My choices are my own. My responsibility is my own.

---

Unfortunately, that's not enough for some conservative Christians.

They want to meddle. For the greater good, of course.

And that means taking lives and responsibility away from other people.

---

If you bother to read my comments, you'll find I don't try to hide what I am saying. After all, I am a pagan libertarian posting openly on a conservative mostly Christian board.

If you had asked me about the "culture wars," I'd tell you that war is the wrong way to think about it. War is backed by force. If you can't convince someone that your way is right without resorting to force, you're doing it wrong.

What you believe isn't important to me. Your freedom to choose what to believe, that is vital. That is what I will defend.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝…restricted groups…

Curious choice of phrasing there.

Okay, here's the NeoNotes™ version. In three parts.

---

Part the First — Labels don't define people, labels describe people. Just because one Democrat orthodontist Mets fan beats his wife and kids does't mean that all Democrats do. Or all orthodontists do. Or all Mets fans do.

It means one person does.

Until you can show that ALL individuals within a group are equally guilty of all crimes, then you can't link group membership to the crime.

---

"The word is not the thing." "The map is not the territory." The person is not the label.

Not all cancer victims smoke. Not all people wearing pants commit armed robbery. Not all American males like football.

You do not control people by slapping a on a label.

---

Part the Second — No matter how much you disapprove of someone's behavior and personal life, if it's not against the law it's none of your business.

Remember that last bit.

It's none of your business.

Make it your business for whatever reason, and you open yourself up to people poking in yours.

---

Depends on the behavior.

Molesting kids, that is against the law and I accept that law as a workable compromise.

Laws against what consenting adults do, well, that is bad law. I don't care if it's a home brewery, scrapbooking, or sex, it's none of your business.

See Part the Third.

The law has no virtue because it is law.

---

Part the Third — There are limited times ANYTHING should be against the law.

If it doesn't threaten another's person or property, then it probably shouldn't be a law.

Just because your religion says it's not right doesn't mean it should be illegal. Unless you want to be controlled by another's religion.

I think we should compromise and at least try to protect children.

Anything else should be hands off.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

This particular thread inspired the name.

❝❝Your issue with me isn't about what I say. It's that I don't recognize Christianity as the "obviously superior" choice. It's that I won't give Christianity the hand up you think it deserves. It's that I don't think Christianity is the "universal" choice.

Am I attacking you? No. Am I attacking Christianity? No. Am I suppressing Christianity? No.

If Christianity is what you believe, then it should be able to hold it's own AND MORE against any other set of ideas with no special advantage.

Which means there’s no need to explain human behavior because of Divine intervention or devilish activity.

It’s choice.❞❞

Tags: Christianity ∙ commenting ∙ Divine intervention ∙ devilish activity ∙ choice & consequence ∙ maxims

❝❝Most of the ordinary are already great.

Even their day to day actions produce wonders.

That orange juice in your fridge and in fridges all over the country? Absolutely wonderful and put there by everyday people doing everyday things.

That smartphone you use? We were barely reaching for it twenty-five years ago. Made possible by ordinary people wanting things just a bit better than they were yesterday.

That food bank downtown? It's only there because some folks decided to make things a little easier for their neighbors.

All great things. All wondrous things. All made possible by ordinary people.❞❞

Tags: ordinary ∙ orange juice ∙ fridge ∙ smart phone ∙ food bank ∙ commenting

❝❝We are a nation of individuals, of individual liberty and responsibilities, of individual choice and individual passion. We're the first nation like that in recorded history, it is our legacy.

Our faiths, like Christianity, are a part of that.

Please think about this. You may believe that your God makes the sun rise, but your faith doesn't control my actions. Likewise, my faith doesn't control you.

We have to find common ground outside religion. Otherwise it's a matter of whose religion is "in charge," and that way will destroy liberty.❞❞

Tags: personal freedom ∙ commenting ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ personal choice ∙ passion ∙ Christianity ∙ common ground ∙ liberty

❝❝Progress never comes from satisfaction.

And I am not talking about progressives.

We adapt, we change, we rise to meet the challenges. Life is a journey, not a destination.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝I'm not speaking for the pagan community. Much of the justification for "establishing" a Greater Pagan Community® is so that certain individuals can get the adoration and deference they believe they deserve.

I believe in ecology but I'm against environmentalism.

I believe individual freedom and personal responsibility works ever so much better than collectivism.

I think that what Christians call the Golden Rule is one of the most important roots of civilization. But I prefer another version, "Be excellent to each other. And party on, dudes!"

Now is that enough of a test, or do I have to give the Super Secret Handshake™ too?❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝I'm not familiar with the work, but we've seen these discussions far too often. Take the allegation that the United States is a "rape culture." Or the notion that anyone who says "all lives matter" instead of "black lives matter" is a racist.

In this specific case, look at the mindsets involved. One wants validation and their demands enshrined in law and regulation. The other wants a better world for them and theirs. Yet both are treated as if the RadFem ideology is dominant.

There are women who consider themselves feminists that think wife and mother is a valid choice and don't want anything to do with the RadFems. But these are not the ladies doing it for attention. They won't be published. They won't be picketing. They won't be giving soundbites for the news or YouTube. That's not how they believe lasting change happens.

Words matter. Actions matter more. Intentions don't.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝Anytime someone starts talking about a Christian theocracy, I ask "Which one?"

Besides the obvious differences between Catholics and Protestants, there are differences between the sects. There's no way a Baptist is going to take religious marching orders from a Mormon. The Methodists won't accept directions from the Christian Scientists.

This predates the country. Back in the colonial days, no one wanted a church in one colony dictating religious practices in another. This is partially why there was no national church defined in the Constitution and why the only mention of any god in that document was the date.

The best way to make sure that you're allowed to practice your religion in peace is to make sure EVERYONE has that same right.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

Tags: Christianity ∙ Catholic ∙ Protestant ∙ Baptist ∙ commenting ∙ Methodist ∙ Christian Scientist ∙ rights

❝❝There I admit we get into some speculation. We can't isolate the culture from the genetics. Not to mention that Really Big Assumption that you are either straight OR gay forever and ever, amen.

We can't say how much a person's sexual orientation depends on their conditioning, religious beliefs, cultural standards, rebellion, stress, pain, or pleasure. These factors can't be eliminated.

Basically all we have to work with is observations and we don't know how much is because of the biology and how much is because of the mind. That means in turn that any discussion of sex is going to bog down really quickly in ideas that can't be quantified.

Thank the gods the same can't be said for the act!❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝

Tags: straight ∙ gay ∙ pleasure ∙ sexual orientation ∙ pain ∙ rebellion ∙ stress ∙ commenting ∙ mind ∙ sex ∙ biology ∙ observations ∙ cultural standards ∙ conditioning ∙ religious beliefs

Comments

❝❝Perhaps we could just say stuff happens and individuals need to be held responsible.

The trends argument is the same justification that the RadFems use against males in general. You can pick and choose bad examples and ignore the good examples. That way, you never need to talk about individuals, it's about trends and statistics and who is the greater "danger to the community."

Why is it better when conservatives use that justification against whatever Label X is this week?

Until and unless you can show that all of Label X engages in Action Y AND no one who is Not Label X engages in Action Y, the argument falls down. Which means maybe, just maybe we should look at something other than the label.❞ class="ghoster">❞

❝❝Perhaps the biggest difference between libertarians and conservatives/progressives is that conservatives and progressives view government as a Way To Get Things Done.

Libertarians see government as an extremely dangerous beast that if kept at all, must be severely hobbled and and three-quarters starved.

For the safety of the community.❞ class="ghoster">❞

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.

❝❝

Tags: conservative ∙ progressive ∙ libertarian ∙ government beast ∙ commenting

Comments

But here’s the thing. They make no secret of their opinion. If they think I am wrong, they tell me and they tell me why.

Tags: RSM ∙ Twitter ∙ conservative ∙ thou shalt not dissent ∙ commenting ∙ short ∙ The Other McCain

❝❝Actually there is very little difference between the "leaders" of either party. They don't object to stuff being done, they object to the other "guy" doing it and getting the cblurbit.❞❞

Tags: Republican ∙ Democrats ∙ statist ∙ numbers game ∙ not your friend ∙ commenting ∙ technocrats ∙ politicos

❝❝Speaking only for myself, I want the U.S. armed forces to be the toughest, most capable sons of a gun on the face of the planet. Especially the elite units. I want them to make other national leaders nervous, even if they are half way across the globe. I want whispers in the darkest shadows of just what happens when someone dares threaten freedom if an American serviceman can do something about it.

Any female who can fill the physical and mental requirements without any allowances for their sex has my respect. All the more so if they show the warrior virtues. But by all the warrior gods they'd better damn well hold their own and more.❞❞
     — NeoWayland

Tags: political correctness ∙ maxims ∙ commenting ∙ woman ∙ military ∙ combat ∙ Lady Freedom ∙ prey ∙ The Other McCain

I realize the man is trying desperately to make his mark.

Tags: shooting ∙ short ∙ San Bernardino ∙ mass shootings ∙ Chattanooga ∙ commenting

I did not humble myself and acknowledge the sins of my skin color.

Tags: victimhood ∙ racism ∙ short ∙ celebrate ∙ blame ∙ commenting

This is from an email exchange I had recently.

Tags: Christianity ∙ Pagan ∙ religious freedom ∙ commenting ∙ tain't mine

Since I just spent forty-five minutes writing it as a post, you’re damn right I’m going to put it here.

Tags: Christianity ∙ prejudice ∙ Bible ∙ classic ∙ commenting

❝❝You want to impress me, come up with something more than "the Bible told me so.” Don't make threats about judgement and eternal flame. Don't tell me about the changes it's made in your life. Don’t tell me how it’s “saved you.” Don’t tell me how you have the hotline to the “Almighty." 

And don’t tell me “it’s God’s judgement” when you’re the one spouting the words.

Tell me about the changes your faith makes in the world around you. Tell me what you do that makes the world better than when you got here.  Tell me how your faith manifests through you. 

Tell me about how you pass it on.

If that "Living Word" exists, it has to be in the hearts and souls of those people who have really embraced it. It's not in a dusty book. The verses don't matter except to show you the way. Tell me what lives behind those printed words. Tell me how you turned your sacrifice into a blessing.

Tell me about love. Tell me about the love you showed today.

Your actions show that. 

Your next choice starts now.❞❞
     — from the private journal of NeoWayland

Tags: Christianity ∙ wisdom ∙ be careful what you wish for ∙ Bible ∙ love ∙ cross posted ∙ commenting

❝❝You can't childproof the world. The best you can do is world proof your children.❞❞
     — anonymous

Tags: hero ∙ victimhood ∙ anonymous ∙ commenting ∙ trigger warnings ∙ safe zones ∙ people claiming offense ∙ L. Neil Smith

❝❝If the choice is between the absolute on the left side or the absolute on the right, I am going to pick freedom despite both❞❞

Tags: right vs. left ∙ commenting ∙ freedom

❝❝I'm for live and let live.

I wish more people were.

You should live your life as you choose. Just don't expect me to celebrate it because it is your life after all. And don't go after your neighbor because of the lawn he planted or the socks he wears or where he spends his Tuesday nights.❞❞

Tags: live & let live ∙ commenting ∙ maxims

❝❝I’ve long since concluded that no one has all the answers or even most of the questions.❞❞

Tags: answers ∙ questions ∙ commenting

Bookworm is looking for scapegoats

Tags: personal freedom ∙ commenting ∙ personal responsiblity ∙ Bookworm ∙ Christianity ∙ parity test ∙ progressive ∙ goal is freedom ∙ modern liberal ∙ freely chosen